But does this argument hold any validity?
Does a species far advanced of us have to attack a world to get what they need? If you were in need of minerals and other materials why would you have to go to a world with complex life and destroy it? Why not just mine the moons. There are eight or nine planets around our sun and many moons around those planets. Not only is there an abundance of minerals on those bodies, but also ,it seems, water. Attacking a planet with 8 billion souls may be harder than it appears. When America went into Baghdad we had all our guns blasting. Our air superiority was second to none of this planet. But once we planted boots on the ground to mop up, we had the same problems we had in any war like this, a long drawn out struggle.
There is
no doubt any Extra Terrestrial who managed star travel could destroy us in many ways…but would they have to? Using Mr. Hawking concept wouldn’t it be better to secretly use our world as a launching pad to excavate the moons and planets of our solar system. This could easily be done without undue suspicion from the locals, especially if they still lived a constant species centric existence. Any arguments that ETs couldn’t get away with this are laid to rest by credible reports of UFO craft over a mile in diameter hovering silently over various parts of our planet, never to be challenged. They are not challenged because they give no reason to be challenged. What we know now, from government released classified documents, is that when UFOs were challenged it was always a no- win situation for our pilots. There seems to be a common sense policy in place for all the governments: The governments know they only have a finite number of times they can chase UFOs they cannot catch. That is where we seem to be right now. Unless a UFO makes a nuisance of itself it is left alone.
Could an alien presence go undetected by our top scientists? When the smartest minds on our planet say it’s close to impossible for UFOs to be spacecraft, it becomes a rule in science. Even a monstrous evil ET could spot this and could use it very effectively without the need for violence. When you start to think about any ETs destroying whole planets of intelligent species from star to star you find an unstoppable message that is delivered which precludes any species from doing just that.
Of course the planet that you destroy gets the message but so does other intelligent species in the neighborhood who have star travel. How stupid would these other ETS have to be to ignore the potential wolves at their virtual doorstep?
Stephen Hawking could be accused of other short sightedness when he makes these proclamations. He assumes the materials we consider most important will be what they consider most important ten thousand years from now. I am sorry but the ET reports indicate they may feel the important material to gather is not outside our bodies but inside it. In this case, if you were gathering biological gold destroying a civilization would be crazy. In fact eventual contact may be necessary as the world progresses to discover you.
Think about that. Even now corporations are copyrighting biological material. How important will this material be in a hundred years, a thousand years or even a million? The report from the abductees seems to indicate exactly what ETs are doing here; collecting the very essence of us.
Are there other worlds that will buy these biological products or is the product an absolute necessity for survival and has to be gathered? Life is rarer than minerals and water and if they are here I would bet it’s about life.
It seems Stephen hasn’t really thought this through. Humans are not the template to judge other species actions in the Universe; especially if you are considering an advanced ET. I think we can all admit being hoodwinked by someone much smarter than you is not a disgrace.
Total destruction of a planet is so over the top now as to be ridiculous, and if you think about it, the reported ETs do not, in any way, reflect this idea. What we find seems a much more intelligent and complex being. We find them gathering material from us. We find them at times conditioning us to a presence. We find they are quick to run away and not fight. We find very little evidence of the great weapons we envisioned in our star war science fiction. We find a humbler ET not going out of their way to control us. We find ETs which are not here to save the world either. What is so striking about all this is that when you get into the detail s of reported ET actions and abductions they are not like anything we had imagine., maybe that is because they are real
Stephen Hawking is the one of the best minds our world has ever produced, however there seems to be brighter and wiser minds out there… who prevailed.
Joseph Capp
UFO Media Matters
Non-Commercial Blog
ABC News Reporting on S. H.:
I think media has done a good job in rolling out this "news". I mean: It's just a TV documentary, no scientific research paper where he says this.
ReplyDeleteAnd Joseph, you might be interested in this talk that Hawking had held at TED {1}:
Minute 5: "I am discounting reports of UFOs. Why would they appear only to cranks and weirdos?"
And further: "If there is a government conspiracy to suppress the reports and keep for itself the scientific knowledge the aliens bring, it seems to have been a singularly ineffective policy so far."
To me it looks like Hawking is quite uninformed when it comes to the UFO topic.
-- heed
[1] http://www.ted.com/talks/stephen_hawking...e_universe.html
One of the markers of a truly advanced species, culture or consortium is efficiency (i.e. economy).
ReplyDeletePredation is not an efficient means of sustenance, as it introduces significant risk factors to the dominant entity... and another marker of advanced intelligence is effective risk management.
Hawking blew it, and I hope he takes a [metaphorical] beating for capitulating to his fear, and, worse, for endeavoring to reproduce his phobia on a mass scale.
Dear Anonymous thanks,
ReplyDeleteI guess my wife is right I am a weirdo and a crank. The interesting part about this is when any UFO case is reported in the news you always have the debunker explaining to everyone how it is impossible to get here from another star system. But good old Steven he can get away with it. I think you are dead on when it comes to Hawking and UFOs. I would like Edgar Mitchell to drop him a note and let Mr. Hawking call him crank or a wierdo.
Thanks
Joe
UFOMM
Dear Arvin,
ReplyDeleteGood point. I would hope that any advanced species would have solved many of the problem perplexing us, otherwise I don't think they would make it. Destroying worlds is a messy business. There may have been, in the past, some cases of Alien nastiness on earth but hardly on an worldwide scale.
Thanks
Joe
UFOMM
Ahem..ahem...pardon me..but.....
ReplyDeleteUFOs, be they aliens or not, have been fucking around with humanity for decades, if not centuries or longer.
They operate in secrecy, conduct a cover-up, and deeply and often traumatically impact people's lives.
Now, I have no idea for sure if UFOs, any of them, represent 'extraterrestrials' however, all evidence gathered to date shows that we have every reason to be deeply suspicious of them.
Just what species do you belong to after all?
We may even be 'ants' relative to these UFO occupants but at least I intend to be on the 'ants' side of the equation.
John
Thanks John,
ReplyDeleteWe have a right to be suspicious but I think we have to be very respectful of the power of the intelligence we may be facing. What ever is happening with these beings it is more complex than just conquering our planet.
Thanks
John
Thanks John,
ReplyDeleteWe have a right to be suspicious but I think we have to be very respectful of the power of the intelligence we may be facing. What ever is happening with these beings it is more complex than just conquering our planet.
Thanks
John
Blogger: UFO Media Matters - Post a Comment
ReplyDeleteIt's like the 1968 NSA document called UFO Hypothesis and Survival Questions" says, "Up until this time, the leisurely scientific approach has too often taken precedence in dealing with UFO questions. If you are walking along a forest path and someone yells 'rattler' your reaction would be immediate and defensive. You would not take time to speculate before you act. You would have to treat the alarm as if it were a real and immediate threat to your survival. Investigation would become an intensive emergency action to isolate the threat and to determine its precise nature. It would be geared to developing adequate defensive measures in a minimum amount of time. It would seem a little more of this survival attitude is called for in dealing with the UFO problem."
Hawkings is wise to suggest caution. To assume anything about what an alien civilization would do or is doing without real evidence is asking for trouble. You assume a threat until proven otherwise ...unless survival is a secondary goal. Just because a society employs high technology doesn't mean it is advanced socially in such a way that would mesh with human society. And as the document says elsewhere there are certain seeming inescapable sociological and physiological ramifications of contact with a significantly more advanced civilization that would not benefit us in the least.
I think the main thing is "who knows?" and when you don't know it pays to be careful. I think we need to seriously prepare as global community (the U.N.?)for meeting threats coming from off-planet. This includes asteroids, solar flares, and roving bands of alien marauders hell bent on stealing all of our shiny things and wimmings.
Dear Trained Observer,
ReplyDeleteCould that be the reason SETI hasn't heard anything?
However Stevens' red flag is a false flag. Any sufficiently advanced civilization with star travel would have found easier ways to spot planets like ours. I still believe warlike ET entities would have been taken care of by other advanced species long ago. Of course they could be the top of the stellar food chain in this part of the neighborhood. If that's the case it's probably too late now anyway.
Thanks
Joe
ufomm
They don't have to be warlike at all, just sufficiently "different" or "advanced" to have unintentional adverse effects on human society. There things as bad or worse than "war-like". They might see us as the Christian missionaries saw the natives of the North American continent, savages who need conversion and their brand of "civilization."
ReplyDeleteWe shouldn't assume anything one way or the other, we just need make sure we hope for the best but plan for the worst. Making contact with "ET" (whatever they are, where ever they come from) is going to have its consequences and we need to be prepared for them. Someone knocking on the door and asking for a cup of Dysprosium isn't out of the realm of possibility.
Dear Train Observer,
ReplyDeleteI fully agree and I don't see us sending messages out to space anymore. I just think at this point in the age of the Universe what ever could have happened would have happened already.
Now, as the probability of life in the universe continues to go up, I think we can say with some certainty that a Alien Napoleon will not show up. Famous last words right?
Thanks again
joe
ufomm
...Minute 5: "I am discounting reports of UFOs. Why would they appear only to cranks and weirdos?"
ReplyDeleteThat's a devastating quote... and not for us cranks and weirdos.
Thanks for sharing it, Anon.
* * * * * * * *
"They operate in secrecy, conduct a cover-up, and deeply and often traumatically impact people's lives."
That sounds familiar. Patriot Act familiar. Death squad familiar. Pat Tillman familiar. All kinds of familiar.
UFO encounters can be quite profound. The extent to which they rise to the level of traumatic, I believe, very often corresponds to our individual and collective response to the phenomenon - and those responses, regardless of their nature, are cultivated in the darkness of societal ignorance: some of it willful; much of it, not (i.e. State cultivation of ignorance through propaganda).
The official and unofficial response: Declaring witnesses psychological aberrations, and/or other sanctions intended to make life extremely uncomfortable for people with the earth-shattering temerity to describe events which contradict the official line/lie.
Now *that* is a veritable fountain of trauma - manufactured, deliberate, systemic, punitive trauma - and it represents a greater immediate threat to me - by far - than any cosmic/transdimensional intelligence I've thus far encountered.
Now, I have no idea for sure if UFOs, any of them, represent 'extraterrestrials' however, all evidence gathered to date shows that we have every reason to be deeply suspicious of them.
Perhaps the evidence validators are cherry-pickers much like the scientists, politicians and bureaucrats they accuse, with ample reason, of intellectual dishonesty.
My life, which I was quite happy with before peeling this onion, has been vastly enriched by my experiences, and I know for a fact I'm not the only one. Far from it.
In fact, one of the things that surprises me is the degree to which people with positive contact experience are frequently perceived as Manchurian Candidates by the same people who keep the tissue box stocked for abductees with horror stories. If it bleeds, it leads.
"Just what species do you belong to after all?"
One that thinks extremely highly of itself, considering the rank exploitation of its poorest, most vulnerable members.
When governments and the governing class invoke concerns about threats, the top of the priority list is reserved for defending the global economic order - the system from which, according to the rule makers, all good things flow. To them.
Over and over, the people and institutions making the rules on the trigger-end of the gun demonstrate that their interests are not mine, and, in fact, are antithetical to interests of the vast majority of human beings and other life forms on this planet.
When adopting a defensive posture, it pays to be cognizant of what one is defending and why.
Well said T.O.
ReplyDeletethanks
joe
ufomm
far worse than Hawkings unwittingly rabble rousing conjecture is the way he refuses to even glance at the vast amount of evidence to suggest that we have always been visited and always will be. It's sad to see Hawking trying to elude the risk of peer discrediting by ignoring all the evidence and hard work of people just a little left of the 'fringe' line.
ReplyDeleteAs for the way the sleepy media's ears perked up at the word 'threat' and have rolled with it like an avalanche no one needed or asked for, well who can blame them? Our media is fear-centric. But this is how people way in the mainstream begin to change beliefs from 'are they out there' to 'how much time do we have to dig a root cellar to hide the kids in before the lasers start falling?" And in a way, that's good, if full disclosure is what you're after.
But I fear full disclosure will be a little like lifting up your blanket after a long night's sleep to find a giant mantis gnawing on your leg, and to realize he's been there the whole time, long before our strain of humanity even began, and we're basically snack food... unless of course we can evolve into a state of energy light and expanded enough to get through their nets and back into the light of pure being. We will cease to have a history as we've ever understood it. The wool is over our eyes for a purpose, and if you wonder why, just watch the news' treatment of 'the alien threat!' Klaatu Barada Niktu, baby!
Dear Erich,
ReplyDeleteThank you, I think the other statement he made about UFOs just showing themselves to "cranks" and "weirdos" shows without doubt that I know more about UFOs and who sees them than he does.
Unless you want to put Astronaut Gorden Cooper the hundreds of pilots, scientist, radar operators, State Governors, police and even Presidents into a cranks and weirdos baskets.
The man should read more on subjects he pontificates about.
Joe
UFOMM
Most scientists think they have the right to insult other people on their beliefs & ufo sightings and get away with it just becuase they are scientists. They think they have the power because they have a title and I really hate their attitude toward everything else that don't fit their own belief system.
ReplyDeleteTheoretical physicists and cosmologists talk so much crap and change their mind whenever they want. I usually believe very little of everything they say.
I think Hawking has been watching a lot of "V" episodes lately.
Steven Hawkins,
ReplyDeleteI could ask Stephen Hawking about the ten top Project Bluebook unknowns and he wouldn't have the faintest idea of what I was talking about. He is an expert at what he does and what he does has nothing to do with UFOs.
This is, and has been, the major problem with scientist. They sound so full of themselves there is no room left for pure science.
thank you
Joe
UFOMM
"...It's sad to see Hawking trying to elude the risk of peer discrediting by ignoring all the evidence and hard work of people just a little left of the 'fringe' line."
ReplyDeleteI don't know, it sounds like an intelligent thing to do to me. What "evidence" and "hard work" are you referring to specifically? In other words what evidence are you aware of that would fit the criteria for risking your credibility were you in Hawkings position?
"And in a way, that's good, if full disclosure is what you're after. "
When people talk about Disclosure I have to wonder just where this disclosure of information is supposed to come from. The government? We trust the government to tell us the truth do we? That is assuming they know the truth which seems highly unlikely in any scenario you care to run. You want to hear the government say "aliens are here" or something like that? How do we know they are "aliens from another world" ... because they told us? We should believe them?
Are we hoping for Disclosure from whatever is behind the phenomena? Well, since the phenomena has always been in control of the secrecy and disinformation surrounding it it seems logical to expect any "real" disclosure of information about it to originate there. However, given its track record, it would appear the whatever is behind the phenomena has no interest in "disclosing" anything truthful about itself to us. It hasn't for as long as it has been here (thousands of years?, if so are they really from another planet then?) so why should it change its mind now? If it follows the trend indicated by its history ...it won't.
"...unless of course we can evolve into a state of energy light and expanded enough to get through their nets and back into the light of pure being."
And I wonder what the chances of that happening are? No, really. I would put right up there with Disclosure ...somewhere between slim and none.
It seems to me that the most likely scenario for "Disclosure" is one that involves open war breaking out between Earth's military/security forces and the phenomena or whatever is behind it. This seems pretty remote as well though.
Dear Trained Observer,
ReplyDeleteDisclosure was movement created by Dr. Steven Greer. Getting the witnesses together and trying to use them effectively could have been a smart move. Then Greer made it impossible to succeed it what they could have really done; release of all classified UFO documents. Instead Greer decided to tell the government publicly what secrets they were keeping. After that the serious journalist said what? Their first press conference was the first and last media attended press conference.
Disclosure hangs on as a word in the UFO community but it means many things to many different people insuring that what ever may be Disclosed in the future we will find some group within our midst saying their lying.
As for Sir Stephen, many of them don't believe in God but sometimes they pontificate just like one.
Thanks
Joe
UFOMM
Hello everyone,
ReplyDeleteI am not sure Mr.Hawkins meant that aliens would come as predators or as another specie moved only by the idea of conquering our planet or our ever decreasing natural ressources. I am pretty sure he is right they will be hostile but only because they will study us(as they have been doing for decades).As nazis (and many more megalomaniacs) have showned us, studying on living creature wether humans or animals, is really sadistic and cruel. We will become the rats and they will be lab researchers with no consideration for our race as we are doing with animals.The fact that Mr.Hawkins is not an ufologist make his aproach even more interresting especially because he was a skeptic at first but this theory came to his mind by watching how we humans take our role over other species.For now there is nothing good ahead for us we are doing really poorly as a specie.They will never share their knowledge with us, conspiracy to hide their knowledge by the government? I do not think that is were we are standing for here...maybe hiding informations to control the population is more likely.Control the fear control the mass.They (alien)will use what we can bring to them as humans have been doing with their own kind(indigens), animals, plants, air, rocks...
We should stop to try preventing incidents, wars and death. Then maybe we will stop producing what is really arming, sickening and destroying our lives.
(I am french so please excuse my mistakes and poor sentences.)
keep your mind open and no doors will restrain you.
I don't think we could have progress enough under the way Hawkins describes these ETs if we would have taken that road. Violence breads violence. I think they have did what we haven't done used commons sense and worked together. This idea of needing more and more someday will end. After all getting to the root of this need may stop it once and for all. In a future where study is more important than making money the future looks bright.
ReplyDeleteRead my next Post:
"UFO Media Matters Paradox"
Thanks
Joe
UFOMM
We're a species that's so squeamish about facing matters of death, population control, sterilization, castration, right to die, assisted suicide, and so forth, that we've gone ahead blindly with industrial mass production and in doing so have created unemployment and starvation, destroying the world of tomorrow so we can all eat and reproduce today.
ReplyDeleteWe're jamming a crowbar into the turning wheel of life so we don't have to face our own impending mortality. When we're 'pro-life' we've chosen a side. As long as we pick sides, the aliens will have us at a disadvantage; we need to look beyond life/death duality.
If these beings have been here since before we were, and likely 'seeded' us into existence, then our lives and deaths are like mere Mayflies to them they think in terms of generations, not lives. They watch generations rise and fall and wars break out and mass famine and plagues are brought down to 'thin the herd' so to speak, and when it all gets out of hand, they wipe the drawing board clean, ala the bubonic plague in the Middle Ages.
The Native Americans and other races in history have thought in terms of the seventh generation, and infant mortality rate was high enough that their numbers never increased to beyond what the land could provide. They never had access to medicines that prevent so much of what the circle of life demands. Our attitude towards death is that it's 'wrong' it shouldn't have to happen, not to us! Instead of thinking the aliens are waiting for us to stop even MORE death amongst our species, maybe they're waiting for us to develop a way of life far-reaching enough where we become less emotional and sentimental about 'bare life' and devote a clearer eyed approach to parallel reality, life beyond death, reincarnation, astral travel, and creating artificial means of preserving human intellect and energy beyond the physical body. Our science advances but our spirituality is still rooted in the Middle Ages. Once the population is out of control, plagues are inevitable. We can only see life as truly precious when we see death as precious as well. As Walt Whitman said, "Death is also great, as great as life."
For our star brothers, beyond these normal cycles and dichotomies, we're like children afraid of the boogeyma, allowing them--the aliens-- to rule the dark side of the moon between death and birth, a land we're too scared to peek out from under the covers to face unafraid - to map out and reclaim for ourselves, refusing even to acknowledge the dark ambivalences of our own third eye unconscious.
Sorry if this is too weird! To tie it into Hawkings and the media, Hawkings himself is a great example of an intelligence that's been artificially preserved so that his body is a shell holding a brain free of earthly concerns like speech and movement, but the science he works in doesn't look at big issues like mortality, so is blind to the practical notions of using artificial gravitational force to 'fold' the universe an create space ships that never seem to move, but bring the space to them.
We're like the person who thinks their safe in the horror movie because all the doors are locked, not even thinking that monsters are coming up from the sewer and down the chimney, and out even from the portals created by striking a match or gazing at a picture. Hawking is the voice that says they can only come through the door, so don't worry about that other stuff... uh huh... scientists are always right, and they expect the blank spots in their world view, the things they can't explain, to just wait there for them to test and gather data on before they exist. Sorry, suckaz. Those spots are blank for a reason, our owners dont want us in their bedroom, or on the good sofa.
We're a species that's so squeamish about facing matters of death that I think we're holding ourselves back... I don't think the aliens care about living or dying as much... they live long and see much annd maybe never had a soul to begin with.
ReplyDeleteIf these beings have been here since before we were, and likely 'seeded' us into existence, then our lives and deaths are like mere Mayflies to them they think in terms of generations, not lives. They watch generations rise and fall and wars break out and mass famine and plagues are brought down to 'thin the herd' so to speak, and when it all gets out of hand, they wipe the drawing board clean, ala the bubonic plague in the Middle Ages.
The Native Americans and other races in history have thought in terms of the seventh generation, and infant mortality rate was high enough that their numbers never increased to beyond what the land could provide. They never had access to medicines that prevent so much of what the circle of life demands. Our attitude towards death is that it's 'wrong' it shouldn't have to happen, not to us! Instead of thinking the aliens are waiting for us to stop even MORE death amongst our species, maybe they're waiting for us to develop a way of life far-reaching enough where we become less emotional and sentimental about 'bare life' and devote a clearer eyed approach to parallel reality, life beyond death, reincarnation, astral travel, and creating artificial means of preserving human intellect and energy beyond the physical body. Our science advances but our spirituality is still rooted in the Middle Ages. Once the population is out of control, plagues are inevitable. We can only see life as truly precious when we see death as precious as well. As Walt Whitman said, "Death is also great, as great as life."
For our star brothers, beyond these normal cycles and dichotomies, we're like children afraid of the boogeyma, allowing them--the aliens-- to rule the dark side of the moon between death and birth, a land we're too scared to peek out from under the covers to face unafraid - to map out and reclaim for ourselves, refusing even to acknowledge the dark ambivalences of our own third eye unconscious.
Sorry if this is too weird! To tie it into Hawkings and the media, Hawkings himself is a great example of an intelligence that's been artificially preserved so that his body is a shell holding a brain free of earthly concerns like speech and movement, but the science he works in doesn't look at big issues like mortality, so is blind to the practical notions of using artificial gravitational force to 'fold' the universe an create space ships that never seem to move, but bring the space to them.
We're like the person who thinks their safe in the horror movie because all the doors are locked, not even thinking that monsters are coming up from the sewer and down the chimney, and out even from the portals created by striking a match or gazing at a picture. Hawking is the voice that says they can only come through the door, so don't worry about that other stuff... uh huh... scientists are always right, and they expect the blank spots in their world view, the things they can't explain, to just wait there for them to test and gather data on before they exist. Sorry, suckaz. Those spots are blank for a reason, our owners dont want us in their bedroom, or on the good sofa.
The Native Americans and other races in history have thought in terms of the seventh generation, and infant mortality rate was high enough that their numbers never increased to beyond what the land could provide. They never had access to medicines that prevent so much of what the circle of life demands. Our attitude towards death is that it's 'wrong' it shouldn't have to happen, not to us! Instead of thinking the aliens are waiting for us to stop even MORE death amongst our species, maybe they're waiting for us to develop a way of life far-reaching enough where we become less emotional and sentimental about 'bare life' and devote a clearer eyed approach to parallel reality, life beyond death, reincarnation, astral travel, and creating artificial means of preserving human intellect and energy beyond the physical body. Our science advances but our spirituality is still rooted in the Middle Ages. Once the population is out of control, plagues are inevitable. We can only see life as truly precious when we see death as precious as well. As Walt Whitman said, "Death is also great, as great as life."
ReplyDeleteFor our star brothers, beyond these normal cycles and dichotomies, we're like children afraid of the boogeyma, allowing them--the aliens-- to rule the dark side of the moon between death and birth, a land we're too scared to peek out from under the covers to face unafraid - to map out and reclaim for ourselves, refusing even to acknowledge the dark ambivalences of our own third eye unconscious.
Sorry if this is too weird! To tie it into Hawkings and the media, Hawkings himself is a great example of an intelligence that's been artificially preserved so that his body is a shell holding a brain free of earthly concerns like speech and movement, but the science he works in doesn't look at big issues like mortality, so is blind to the practical notions of using artificial gravitational force to 'fold' the universe an create space ships that never seem to move, but bring the space to them.
We're like the person who thinks their safe in the horror movie because all the doors are locked, not even thinking that monsters are coming up from the sewer and down the chimney, and out even from the portals created by striking a match or gazing at a picture. Hawking is the voice that says they can only come through the door, so don't worry about that other stuff... uh huh... scientists are always right, and they expect the blank spots in their world view, the things they can't explain, to just wait there for them to test and gather data on before they exist. Sorry, suckaz. Those spots are blank for a reason, our owners dont want us in their bedroom, or on the good sofa.
Dear Erick,
ReplyDeleteYou lost me when you started to painting a two dimensional emotional make-up of Steven Hawkins. He probably knows more about life and how to survive in the most difficult, emotional and challenging situation then an dozen of us put together.
Thanks
Joe
UFOMM