Saturday, March 17, 2007

Debunkers Dumb Statements List

Or as I like to call it DDSLBy Joseph Capp
Everyone now is on someones list so I decided the debunkers deserve a list. Here’s my TOP 3 UFO "DEBUNKERS DUMB STATEMENTS LIST", all additions welcomed.
Number One:Jumping James Oberg
On the observation by twelve airline employees witnessing an “object’ and or a “craft” hovering 1500 feet over C17, at O’Hare Airport, which then travel upwards so fast that it made a hole in the low hanging clouds showing the clear blue of the sky through it:
“NSTB investigators say that the worst observers of an aviation accident are aviation personnel. It’s because pilots will usually want to understand what’s happened, and in their initial perceptions and the latter retellings will stress the facts that support their interpretations.” [Emphasis here is mine.]
Aviation accident?Excuse Me! So a pilot would view the sighting of a UFO with the same personal impact as a plane crash- I don’t think so – dumb. Its amazing, if Jumping Jim is right, how do pilots ever guide a plane to an emergency safe landing considering they’re concentrating on “what happened” instead of flying the plane. Any pilots out there disagree with Jimbo.
Did the UFO crash at O’Hare? I must have missed that story. Looks like Jumping James Oberg is, once again, stressing “unfacts” that support…Launching another carefully architected Oberg disinfo opportunity.
Number TwoNo Class Phillip KlassThere’s the famous Lonnie Zamora case --in which a respected small-town, country Police Officer broke off his chase of a speeding car to investigate what he thought was a downed plane-- and came across a craft with small occupants.
The late, prolific, Phil Klass, in UFOs Explained, makes his case that the whole Zamora case was cooked up by the mayor to give tiny Socorro, New Mexico some publicity. Not bloody likely…the impact on the life of the reporting cop was extremely negative for years, and no one built a theme park at Socorro.
But my next one needs a setup.
Number Three:
The rain pelted the small window and lightning was streaking white across the dirty glass. Three men sat around a table. The tallest man stood up and stretched, bringing his 6-foot frame to its full height. He started to pace as he spoke.
“We need to bring the attention back to Roswell. Some type of new disclosure. Something to wow ‘em. Yes that is it! Something that will bring the publishers pounding at our door and sign us on for the really big money: THE COLLEGE LECTURE CIRCUIT! We’ve got to come up with something to link it all together, the Roswell tale and an X factor…something that will blow everything else out of the water.”
The tall man walked over to the bar and, reaching behind the top shelf where the bourbon was, pulled out a glass. Poured himself a double.
A portly, heavy-browed guy sat at the table, giving his friend’s Big Idea some thought. He stroked his beard. A hint of gray in beard and what was left of his hair, caught by the overhead neon lighting, gave him an eerie glow. “Yes!” The dramatic arch of his thick brows got even stranger as he became excited. “Hell, a new X-factor, that’s it! Just what we need to bring our old Roswell book sales up! Resurrect the whole book catalog for all of us. I’ll…I’ll even be able to buy that house in Canada.” The portly man shook with excitement, pronouncing ‘Canada’ with religious fervor.
The third man sat in silence, staring straight ahead. Suddenly, he slammed his hand down hard on the table.
“I have it!” he shouted. “Why don’t we claim we have top secret documents? Documents that reveal the government appointed a group --we can work out a cover on that later-- to study the work in our fake Roswell crash. We could easily con one of the organizations like MUFON for research money. And you guys can do the research we need on faking the documents. On their dime!”
Laughter rang out.
The second man in the meeting put ice in his glass. While stirring, he said, “The problem is that if we use MUFON, they will want to see the documents.”
The portly man got up and walked over to the bar. He pulls a glass out. “With an offer of quality scotch, I may be able to fix it.” He smiled as the second man pulled a special bottle he had hidden in an overhead cabinet. “MUFON, no problem: they will go along with me.” The portly man’s smile broadened.
“After all, I’ve been one of their brighter members. I can do this with just a small token--like the first page. We can easily fake that.”
The tall man turned. “We forgot one thing. How are we going to pull this off with the super debunker, Karl Korff?”
How many times have we heard these debunkers laugh in front of the TV cameras and use the term “conspiracy theorist” any time a UFO researcher mentions the withholding of evidence by any agency? This brand of debunker laughs outright or smirks and throws a couple of those silly people looks at the camera.
So guess who’s at the top of the list of my list?
Number Three:Goes to Konspiracy Kal Korff who dreamt up this bad conspiracy theory without a bit of Proof:
Listen, Kal, if you can’t get it right about the date stamp on classified documents or the way they list names or whether they use their rank properly – and this is your expertise – how are you gonna get it right on all this cloak and dagger stuff?
Most UFO researchers will tell you honestly privately, that there is so much competition in the UFO community, if this conspiracy was true someone would have leaked it or wrote a book about it.
The Three Men are William Moore, Stanton Friedman, Jamie Shandera, The documents were the Majestic 12 documents.
Three researchers together- that definitely means there is a conspiracy - calling Joseph McCarthy.
The Dramatization of Kal Korff conspiracy theory and Korff’s mistakes on the way government and military documents are formatted were by interview on:
“UFO Secret MJ-12 - Do You Believe In Majic?” - Two Disk Set
I loved the first DVD. In the second DVD the camera stayed on Stanton’s face rather than on the presentation - this was recorded at another conference and I guess it was a no brainer the second DVD couldn’t be sold alone. It was sold in a set and priced the same as the singles and the first DVD was well worth the price.Such is the world we live in.
Anytime I feel down, I watch the Marx Brothers.
Joseph CappUFO Media Matters


  1. Two things.

    First, it's Kal Korff, not Karl. Perhaps you're confusing him with the late Karl Pflock.

    Second, I'm glad you liked the DYBIM film, although I personally don't agree with Stan's conclusions - still, it gave both sides the chance to make at least some of their points. However, I feel obliged to point out that the film itself is on disc one - the material on the 2nd disc is simply unedited bonus footage that I provided to the distributor so that people could get better value. The speech by Stan was one he gave at the 2003 Aztec UFO conference, and is unedited.

    Best regards,
    Paul Kimball

  2. Good list. I've written on the dumb and astoundingly surreal things debunkers and "mega skeptics" have said over the years. One of my favorites is something like this: "We don't know what a UFO looks like, so how would we know when we see one?"

  3. Dear Paul,
    Thank you.
    I have a blind spot when it comes to that name. I also mix it up with Karl Pflock.
    Well that is life I'll corrected it.
    I don't believe Stan faked MJ12 documents and felt he was very gracious in even answering that nonsense.
    I felt that was really dirty pool and called him on it. The debunkers are the fist to yell conspiracy theorist whit and mention by anyone that an agency would withhold information. It seems the only people who conspire(according to many debunkers) are UFO witnesses and UFO researchers.
    Isn't that special.
    But I do believe who ever produced the originals MJ12 documents knew a hell of a lot of information on White House meetings etc.. that would have been very hard to come by without extensive research.

    Thank You
    Joseph Capp
    UFO Media Matters

  4. Dear Lee,
    That was a good one where did you hear that. Great circular thinking. When I speak with my skeptical friends they use that circle thinking around the scientific communities lack of interest.
    I start out with - "scientist will not take a look at some of this evidence" - and they say "well if it was important they would".
    The bottom line is I am not going to surrender that part of my brain to scientist. I know some of their explanations are not thought out well. Almost like the reasons to go to war.
    Tell them it's alright and the masses will believe it. It is not worth scrutinizing.
    Go to sleep - we know best.
    My ass!

    Thank You
    Joseph Capp
    UFO Media Matter

  5. Thanks for the article - punching back is fun once in awhile.

  6. Dear M4ever,
    I think we all forget sometimes the plight of the UFO Witness, especially when you see a craft. The emotional impact and then the publicity can literally destroy a persons life. Scientist who would even an attempt at looking at the data face:
    - careers destroyed
    - there position in history forever diminished
    - family shattered

    And when the debunkers are wrong(at least about the witnesses motives) never an apology - never

    what is the debunker defending here the right not to think different - If debunkers are right then they should be championing a through active study long-term study of this - they could prove their point and spend more time on debunking ghost, physics phenomenon, and the other impossibilities that people encounter.

    I don't like laughing at people even debunkers, they are after all, human beings, but even though humans can express the most love they also have done the most harm. I believe a good skeptic understands that most of the people who see UFOs are not lying and brings that part of the experience, of the enigma ,into the equation.

    Thank You

    Joseph Capp
    UFO Media Matters

  7. I like these guys, no really, I do! The best one I have heard from a COMPLETE MORON was YouTube. Where all of them come to flock and try to say a legit video is fake, after examined BY experts.

    1. Guy claims the sighting to be a religious event, then tells everyone to in his words "Watch the bible"!

    *Ok bro, I'll watch my bible just let me find the remote, buddy!

    2. OghamTheBold says - Imagine - technology to hover lights in the air without strings and maybe even technology to cook burgers faster

    3. PetieFr says - Fake... Roswell wasn't an ufo, it was a spionage balloon. The people said it was an ufo cause the spionage balloon was a top secret project. then they saw that the people were in panic. So they said it wasn't an ufo, it was an weather balloon, now the people didn't believe and thought they wanted to hide the ufo...
    sry for my bad english

    4. jsmithprivatedancer says - The US Government stated what are we dealing with? Well Demons or Fallen Angels who can materialize with bodies other than human bodies. However, once they die, they are bound into chain of darkness. Read the BIBLE UFO people. Read the book of ENOCH. It's not believable that so call ALIENS will have a manufactoring base in space which we can see in NASA's STS-75 mission when 1000's of UFO's were filmed. The UFO didn't crash into each other, so they are SPIRITS EVIL OR GOOD - ANGELS.

    *I'm astonished that you didn't say "Watch the bible" like the other idiot. UFO's have nothing to do with the bible

  8. Dear Godtech,
    I don't know what you are basically saying about me. But it would be very easy for Et to hide themselves in myth and religion as a type of disinformation campaign. I think that in the past some of the spiritual experiences may be traced someday to ETs.
    It is all open right now but Roswell was not a balloon. There is just to much evidence it was something very different. I do not have all the answers and I don't think anyone else has them either
    Thank You for your comment.
    Joseph Capp
    UFO Media Matters
    Non-Commercial Blog