Friday, February 16, 2007

A challenge to Scientist

Part III

A Challenge To Scientist, Not Skeptics

The Bigger the Skeptic (debunker) the Bigger the Fool

I hardly ever hear of a skeptic doing any debunking after interviewing a witness to a UFO, especially in person.. For that matter you almost never hear of any scientist or skeptic interviewing any witness to the UFO phenomenon. Strange way to prove this phenomenon isn’t intelligent. If people were reporting the same symptoms of a new disease around the world there would be a massive field investigation.

The skeptics impinge on the clarity of all memories of a credible UFO witness (except those memories that agree with their latest pet explanations.)

I remember reading about a witness, who now is considered very credible by both the skeptics and UFO researchers alike: Police Officer Lonnie Zamora. His credibility, however, was attacked when the Officer first reported his sightings. Officer Zamora witness a landed craft and little people beside it. The evidence was overwhelming. Was he believed or given the benefit of the doubt. Skeptics never dwell on the fact that this man’s career was destroyed. Phil Klass, a famous skeptic at the time, claimed that policeman, Lonnie Zamora, who witnessed a landing of a craft with occupants, must be a liar. The only answer could be that he must be in cahoots with the Mayor of his district to raise the price of land this mayor wanted to sell. In other words, this good policeman was called a liar and a thief. He supposedly staged the burn marks, impressions and lied when he made the dispatch calls- all for a few bucks.
http://www.nmsr.org/socorro.htm

History has shown Klass’s vicious attack to be without any basis in truth. Officer Zamora retired two years after the sighting report, suffering the label of "the man who sees Martians," You will never hear a skeptic apologize, never. I know that people who don’t apologize when they are wrong can become president+(Bush), but should an investegator (Klass Oberg etc.) who is never wrong fight the fight for honest scientific inquiry on UFOs? It would nice if the skeptics used 10% of their time debunking UFO reports would for policing there own sloppy work.
Most skeptics continually use character assignations. They imply that all credible, highly qualified witnesses lose their intelligence when they report UFO sighting details: i.e.: “pilot mistook bad weather for a solid craft.”
I wonder how many skeptics would make blanket statements about the character of a UFO witness if that witness were testifying on their behalf in a criminal case.

MUFON and many UFO researchers do their work out in the field. One field investigator has amassed 5000 UFO landing trace cases. Some investigators are retired police officers, engineers, scientists, etc. The UFO cases which are discredited by MUFON are done by the evidence, not by character attacks.

The UFO phenomenon has challenged science for at least 50 years.

What has been done to “mainstream scientists” who have studied aspects of the UFO phenomenon is tantamount to what was done to early scientists by way of the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages. Today the skeptics try to destroy careers, revoke tenure, cause diversion of research monies, and influence non- support by the of peers.
I believe some mainstreamed scientists today have the courage of their ancient counter parts:

“Between 1992 and 1997 Bruce Cornet scientifically studied and documented Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) near Pine Bush, NY. He documented the phenomenon using time exposures at night in order to record the movements of UAP in relationship to trees, fields, and landmark features on the ground. His data confirm the existence of a phenomenon that most mainstream scientists are afraid to investigate for fear of peer ridicule and censorship.”


Bruce Cornet reports on the behavior of his fellow scientist upon showing them the data:

“I have actually had competent scientists and aerospace engineers lose it after viewing my data. They desperately tried to preserve their beliefs and concepts of reality by denying that I had photographed and videotaped anything other than conventional aircraft. Objectivity lost, they fished for explanations that were more ridiculous than the obvious, ignoring definitive evidence to the contrary. Their response is a psychological problem, not an indication of any weakness in the evidence or its implications.”


http://www.sunstar-solutions.com/AOP/HomePage/power_point_presentations.htm


As Robert G Jahn past dean of Princeton’s school of Engineer who headed the Anomalies Research laboratory which closed recently.
“For 28 years, we’ve done what we wanted to do, and there’s no reason to stay and generate more of the same data,” said the laboratory’s founder, Robert G. Jahn, 76, former dean of Princeton’s engineering school and an emeritus professor. “If people don’t believe us after all the results we’ve produced, then they never will.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/10/science/10princeton.html?_r=1&oref=slogin



Look through the eyepiece and tell me what you see, the clergy present, would not look through the eyepiece.”
Galileo

I ask though, what does Bruce Cornet’s data accomplish in today’s climate of fear, the same fear that fellow scientists felt during the middle ages?

-
Do you realize that the only UFO paper published in a scientific peer-review journal in the last 20 years about UFOs was only allowed to use certain reports (3) and none of them new?


I don’t know if anyone reading this has watched the movie “One Flew over the Cuckoo’s Nest”. Jack Nicolson’s(a patient among many in a mental asylum) character is trying to lift this heavy sink and rip it out of the floor. He did this while an enormous Native American(another patient) watched, commenting how ridiculous it was for Nicholson to try to attempt the impossible. Nicolson tries with all his might to lift the sink and fails. The Native American shakes his head and seems to think Nicolson is a fool. But Nicolson replies with a statement that sticks in the mind of this enormous powerful man:

“At Least I Tried.”

At the end of the movie Nicolson character is all but dead. The Native American with a powerful lift finally pulls the sink out and smashes it through the window to escape to freedom, the real freedom: the freedom to decide for yourself.

What ever the debunker or skeptics want to say about Bruce Cornet, at least he tried. He could have stayed in his office but instead he wanted to see for the evidence firsthand. What a novel idea.



My challenge here is not to the skeptic but to the real scientists; those who can feel instinctively there is something more to be revealed about the UFO enigma

UFO Flap.

Here is a chance to find out what is really going on for yourself. Right now there seems to be a UFO flap. UFO flaps are concentrations of UFO activates usually for a limited period of time. These “UFO flaps” are uncommon and an opportunity for the pure scientists. We now know that many witnesses have recounted repeated sightings during these flaps. A good example of this, today, is in Tippen, North Dakota where craft and occupant have been reported observed and interacted with. MUFON has been to the site where the people have tangled with these “visitors”. MUFON reports the family involved seemed sincere. What has happened since then seems to duplicate how most flaps evolve: multiple sightings and group sightings, photos and sometimes videos. Perhaps, if a couple of scientists with test equipment and open minds went to these sites to investigate in a timely manner, who knows what they might find?
See Tippen North Dakota
http://www.earthfiles.com/

Most discoveries are made by observing anomalies by scientists who think differently. The world at large may have one of the greatest discoveries of all time waiting for the right scientist with tireless tenacity and courage to discover it. After all is said and done, even if you do not get the answer to this enigma, you can honestly say, “At Least I Tried.”


Joseph Capp

UFO Media Matters

36 comments:

  1. I really doubt any scientist will actually do what you suggest. They're so ignorant and close minded, an alien could land outside their lab, walk in, zap the stool he sits on, and then slap him. Said alien could walk out, and all Mr. Scientist would say is " gee- my imagination's getting away with me".

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  2. The investigative research into really what a witness has seen is a joke at best and any type of follow ups of a witness that would be very important to any UFO case is almost nonexistent. The sad fact is there is no broad type of UFO investigation of the vast majority of sightings. It is not occurring it is only an illusion that it is happening and it raises the question as to why all the attention to some cases, and some very weak ones at that, and some very good cases get totally ignored? I said it before and I'll say it again Ufology needs to be cleaned up and cleaned out.

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  3. Amen to that brother. We don't deserve to know the truth for the simple reason that we don't stand up and demand it. We've spent the last fifty years being complacent and fearful. We're afraid of any changes to the paradigm we build up about the nature of reality. The hardened and relentless skeptic is simply someone with a limited intellectual capacity and a heart filled with fear. Some search for truth wherever it leads and God bless them. But far too many of us are intellectually limited and habitual cowards who tremble at the thought of changing our world view. And it is scary, I can't deny that. We are NOT the big kids on the block, and that terrifies some of us. But running away from truth does not negate it - it may just negate us! It's time we took a stand and said: no more crap explanations, like the air force dropped dummies from the sky ten years after the Roswell incident so that must of been what people saw (? say what? they saw it ten years prior in some sort of temporal shift? And people didn't scream out: Are you people complete idiots? You make no sense!) I fear that we deserve whatever fate awaits us - and it may not be pretty. Apparently those wise men (as undoubtedly the first North Americans to deal with the truth of nonEarth intelligent life were) who decided to lie to their populace and the world forgot that "The truth shall set you free" and that lies may do the exact opposite and cage mankind for an eternity (it's been at least one generation already).

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  4. http://ufor.blogspot.com/2007/02/real-1964-socorro-sighting_14.html

    "The Socorro/Zamora sighting of April 24, 1964 was a Hughes Aircraft testing episode."

    Or not.

    Although this site has many nifty graphics backing up the "Hughes aircraft" theory, the evidence is no where near strong enough to warrant the opening salvo that's quoted above.

    In the end, I don't find much difference between total sceptics & total believers.
    Both approach the anomalous data with pre-formed world views & both magically manage to find reaffirmations of those world views.

    I prefer the scepticism of say, the Zetetic Scholar, but truly open minds are hard to find these days.

    What you say though, is little different from what Jacques Vallee has said when he condemns "arm-chair ufologists" who build their incredible theories without once doing any field work.
    It appears that lazy scholarship is rampant in both the sceptic & believer camps.

    Human nature, I suppose.

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  5. Dear W.M,
    MUFON(Mutual UFO Network) does that all the time. In the last two MUFON journals a MUFO field investigator has follow-up an investigations on recent UFO case. His conclusion takes this UFO researcher to task for possibly being duped. There is no doubt this go on. Honest UFO researchers get duped also. Some of them also have a problem admitting they are wrong.

    I also believe the UFO phenomenon can only be solved with long term financial backing. But you have to be smart when you study something. I think this is where NIDS made their mistake. You have to have the possibility built into the hypothesis that you may be studying an intelligence which is aware of you.

    Until someone with the money and the street smarts to tackle this problem comes on to the rescue we will be left with some good investigations and some bad ones. There is something I have learned from taking to many UFO researchers they do believe UFOs are real in their heart.
    The only way a person can devote (a rudimentary funded) UFO research is to write a book, a DVD, or as in the MUFON organization, volunteers and donations.
    The test of time usually sorts out the liars, from the hoaxers, from those who witnessed the unbelievable.
    Thank You
    Joseph Capp
    UFO Media Matters

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  6. in 70's i was stationed at cannon afb, nm when a rash of sightings began. to cut to the chase, an (attempted) engagement between usaf f111-d model "fighter-bombers" based there and "bogeys" which had been observed over the base both visually and electronically was covered up. i have no doubt that the person who directly threatened me to remain silent about the incident was not usaf. i do, however, believe he is/was government and that the cover-up continues to this day.

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  7. I appreciate the work MUFON does, and I am quite open-minded on this subject. However, not everyone who has an interest in this field hates President Bush. Please keep your socialist comments to yourself in the future and stick to the pertinent facts. Or you could mention the greatest liar who ever became President, Bill Clinton.

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  8. This is just the tip of the iceberg. I've just begun to research the techniques of debunkers, and you'd be surprised at the depths of their unscrupulous behaviors. No, they don't use fabrication, faulty arguments or camera trickery of their own, do they? You'd be as surprised as I. The problem is that "debunking" has become a profitable cottage industry. Stay tuned, folks...within a few years, I'm going to try to put this all in print.

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  9. Dear Mulebone,

    The RRR group takes up this old hat here. But read the excellent comment by Moonman7 he destroys RRR the case and foolishness behind it better then I could ever say it. I hope Moonman7 would e-mail me I would love to here from him.

    http://ufor.blogspot.com/2007/02/real-1964-socorro-sighting_14.html

    Thank YOu
    Joseph Capp
    UfO Meida Matters

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  10. Dear Anoymous,
    I think your right it was low blow about Bush. Don't like him -couldn't help myself.

    Joe

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  11. Dear Anonymous,
    Many of the military attendees at the UFO conferences are retired serviceman - veterans who only started to talk after they felt a long time had passed. Most of ones I talked to were warned not to speak of it. I believe them and respect them.
    Joseph Capp
    UFO Media Matters

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  12. Wolfman,
    I love your name. I would love to read a book on that subject. Go on brother it is about time. By the way the skeptics will claim, eveything say and do after you get publish on any UFO subject, is to push your next book. For some reason Skeptics are not capitalist when it comes to UFO book writers. They think you should do eveything for free as they do. W

    Yea! and do you want to see a bridge I have for sale.

    Thank You
    Joseph Capp
    UFO Media Matters.

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  13. As a skeptic, I would take your proposal more seriously if you had managed to spell "challenge" correctly in your blog title.

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  14. That's right Money the root of all evil. People need money to research UFO's and the reality is no money very little research. So what does it take to make that money? To sell out the cause for truth by those that keep selling of known hoaxes or beyond little question some misidentifications? Why? Because we need material to promote and sell to make more money for research? I believe greed must play a part as well. Books, DVD's ect. so what is this a Ufology trap? I say Truth? Is the government selling us Truth? Are some in Ufology selling you Truth? I say we lead by example and stay the course of truth. If someone gets an interest and decides to research for themselves to see what all the shouting is about and then keeps running into the nonsense and lets not play games here we that know what the nonsense is. They say I'm not getting near that Ufology mess as it is a waste of my time. Then who fills the void? It's like a dog chasing it's tail. Then we complain why no respect and why main stream loses interest or we all become case studies for psychology or sociology. IF the government is holding back information to the public about UFO's and I do believe they are but to what extent because of how much they do or don't actually known is really still unknown. But, I feel quite comfortable in saying this, I know that some type of ETI is already here or will be coming and we all had better get our acts together. Because there has been some very real UFO's seen and we all had better stop playing make believe because the consequences could become very real if we don't as well. MUFON well that's another subject that I have some mixed feelings about.

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  15. Dear Anonymous,

    Thank You
    I will try to do better. I thought I corrected that a while ago.

    JC

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  16. Dear Wm,

    There is something going on and I feel it in my bones also. We live in an imperfect world and no where is it more evident than in the UFO field(except in the skeptics field). But I am hoping there is the turth matters in the end. if we get the chance at a fair playing field we can defend the data and the case that some UFO are not US. Thousand of people who are just like us prove that.

    JC
    UFO Media Matters

    JC

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  17. The very reason why UFO's are being debunked and not investigated fully is are we really ready for the truith? Ever hear of the Brookings report?

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  18. "A challenge to a scientist" or "A challenge to scientists?" I suspect you meant to use the plural.

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  19. Dear Anonymous,
    Yes I have heard of the Brookings institute. One of the theories being put forth is that these visitors are using exposure for their own conditioning of the human race and that is why there is exposure. Also, and this is my pet theory, that they also may stage disinformation if they believe disclosure is moving to fast. This may account for the more well documented outlandish cases that have all of us scratching out heads. I went to the last speaking engagement of Ingo Swann and he mentioned how some scientist literally lost it when he alter the rate of atomic decay with his mind for a brief second. He is the person who started the whole remote viewing projec. This may be one of the reason it is happening slowly. They may know more then we know about what happens after disclosure if it is done to fast. They may have the experience with other species and the damage that can be done.

    Thank You
    Joseph Capp
    UFO Media Matters

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  20. To Joseph Capp - your credibility would be greatly improved if you used an editor. I noticed several spelling and punctuation errors - they are really irritating. Please invest in some kind of spell checker and, if possible, someone to edit your posting before it is seen by the general public. Thank You.

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  21. In making the derogatory remark about President Bush, you are doing the same thing you are accusing the skeptics of doing. Like other Bush haters, you cited no documentation for your conclusions and you offered no alternatives. Also, you should consider cleaning up you spelling and grammer.

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  22. This is from Sometimes Vitorious a friend of mine:
    As I was staring at Ursa Minor

    "the lil bear"

    I saw an alien who wasn’t there

    He wasn’t there again tonight

    I wish, I wish he'd just take flight.



    Words are strange you can say what you mean but do they mean what you say. I want to believe in UFOs and I hope to live long enough to see one BUT I don’t want to be alone when it happens. First I would like someone to verify my story

    Second I hate to admit it but I’m even scared to stay in the house alone in a thunder storm. Thirdly basically I guess I’m a coward. Truthfully would anyone out there want to be alone and meet an alien? Huh? "Alone" not just words now, I mean really "ALONE" like walking into a pitch black room no windows not one sliver of light. You have to feel powerless, can you feel it or are these just words. Again how do you communicate? Even if it reads my mind I can’t read his. Somewhat like your pet dog you know he understands more than what’s apparent yes he reads your mind but can you have a conversation with him? I don’t think so. Still my curiosity gets the better of me and I say I want to meet an alien are there any other chickens that will join me I don’t think the day is too far off now. And thanks to UFO Media Matters I can at least state my view on the subject.
    Thanks,
    Signed……….Sometimes Victorious

    Vic,
    you don't want to get me started on the real cowards do you.

    Signed……….Sometimes Victorious
    He had trouble sending it here so I'll try it and see what happens

    ufomm

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  23. "The RRR group takes up this old hat here. But read the excellent comment by Moonman7 he destroys RRR the case and foolishness behind it better then I could ever say it. I hope Moonman7 would e-mail me I would love to here from him."
    http://ufor.blogspot.com/2007/02/real-1964-socorro-sighting_14.html

    Thanks for the kudos, although I don't necessarily like their method of brief amazing proclaimations (declamations?) with little backup data while desiring the viewer to connect the dots/fill the picture themselves, you have to give the RRR group guys some credit that they even published my comment. They didn't have to, since it is a moderated blog, so they have at least some level of intellectual honesty/courage. I can only hope they have some secret stash of ancient test documents that they will release when they are ready (gotten backup data for?).

    Another point I forgot to bring up at the time of my posting to their blog is the lack of sense behind a secret/classified program aircraft/spacecraft painting any emblems/code#s/anything on the outside of their vehicle. Oh well.

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  24. Dear Moonman7,
    People don't realize how much time it takes to go through some of the documents out there in UFO document land.
    Thank the spirits that that there are good people like you, who dig deeper in those documents, for no other reason then to find the truth.
    Thank You

    Joseph Capp
    UfO Media Mattes

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  25. Dear Moonman7,
    I tried to e-mail u personally - got it back I would like you to write about your personal journey around the UFO topic for my blog. If not could you e-mail me I so I can write back to you?
    Thank You
    Joseph Capp
    UFO Media Matters

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  26. You wrote: "The Bigger the Skeptic (debunker) the Bigger the Fool".

    I've followed the topic for many many years and also know the corollary: "The Bigger the Believer the Bigger the Fool".

    This has been proven so many times it is inarguable.

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  27. Dear Anonymous,
    Of course your right. There are fools on all sides. But we are the only ones that admit it.

    Thanks

    Joseph Capp
    UFO Meida Matters

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  28. Dear Anonymous,
    Of course your right. There are fools on all sides. But we are the only ones that admit it.

    Thanks

    Joseph Capp
    UFO Meida Matters

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  29. The more I think about it the more I have to wonder. Why is it the UFO community (and everyone else it seems) seems to ignore Dr. Cornet and his large database of work? You watch his videos and they are vastly better than the standard UFO video fare. He has repetitive events. Multiple witnesses. Audio recordings. Yet Maccabee and Friedman seem to ignore him. Is it because Cornet mentions telepathy and precognition? Is it because it looks like a real US advanced craft and people don't want to get involved? I think this is very suspicious. People waste time analyzing McMinnville UFO photos as well as the Ohare case, but Cornet has very disturbing videos of a UFO and not a peep from the UFO elite.

    My "personal journey" is nothing compared to someone like Cornet!!! Somehow he needs to be recognized or given some credit! And note how little other researchers like him are recognized, pretty sad.

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  30. Dear Moonman7,

    First I would like to ask you for your personal e-mail I would like to write to you personally. About your last comment. The NIDS team basically closed up shop after the Utah ranch experience("Hunt for the skinwalker) even though they are still at the ranch in a way.
    I think what generated bad blood was the NIDS team were strongly against any UFO researcher taking part in that field LAB experiment. I understand why the scientist won't look. They may not turn to stone but turning out to be meaningless to their peers is just as bad.

    Joseph Capp
    UFO Media Matters

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  31. I must be dumb but I can't find your email address.

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  32. Okay, I enabled my profile to be viewed and it has my email.

    Regarding the answer to my question, I was referring to the Pine Bush NY UFO research by Dr. Cornet and not about any Utah NIDS research.

    It is very weird and disturbing that Dr. Cornet has gotten little discussion by the UFO bigwhigs in public (UFO) forums. How do you like the video of the overflight by the UFO with trackable spotlights on both "wing tips"! Where is Maccabee on this! Surely Friedman has something to say. No it seems Cornet is left on his own for some reason. Is there some underlying reason that he is not taken seriously? Did I miss something in the UFO soap opera? Do UFO folk mistrust scientists so much they don't even consider their work when they support UFOs?

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  33. <a href="http://paydayadvisors.org">PaydayLoans</a>October 30, 2007 at 12:23 PM

    p02c6A You have a talant! Write more!

    ReplyDelete
  34. Thanks I think I will - now if only I could learn to spell.

    Thanks
    JOE

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  35. <a href="http://hydrocodone.99k.org/index.php">Hydrocodone</a>November 1, 2007 at 10:54 PM

    P7yCDB The best blog you have!

    ReplyDelete
  36. Dear Hydro,
    Thank you it was one of my favorites the other was the post on June Crain. 10 years she worked for Wright Patterson, handled Roswell material but most of all had more character and integrity in her finger nail then all the UFO debunkers and skeptics combined.

    Thanks
    Joe Capp
    UFO Media Matters
    Non-Commercial Blog

    ReplyDelete