Saturday, August 1, 2009

UFO ET And Christian Evangelicals

I'd rather see a sermon than hear one any day;
I'd rather one should walk with me than merely tell the way. Anonymous

http://www.kubik.org/lighter/example.htm



Why am I writing about this at UFO Media Matters? These ultra-conservative Evangelicals have tables set at most of the UFO conferences with nice DVD which hawk their ideas about UFOs and ETS. They had a large presence at the Roswell Festival this year. They can be a very negative force to deal with and I am worried about the UFO conferences. They have money. The more money that comes in through these Christian grups , the more power they may yield. at the conferences. This is something we should be concerned with. Would Christian conferences allow Stanton Friedman to set up a table…don’t hold you breath. If you believe in eventual contact, than you might want to consider what these Christian groups would do if these beings were to make contact and land. It wouldn’t be ETs landing in their minds it would be evil Demons trying to destroy our world. Millions of these type Christian will be programmed into thinking that way. It is possible some of the more fanatical Evangelicals could be dangerous.


When you go to the conferences these Evangelicals will tell anyone who will listen the UFO-ET question is solved. The answer may not make sense but it is God’s answer and it doesn’t have to. These groups have every right say to write or say anything they want. I, also have that right. When they state they have the answers they can expect to be challenged,
For me there is nothing more dangerous than people who don’t have to think. The groups of people who have all major decisions settled for them. There is no gray area in their thinking because everything has been laid out for them. They don’t have to wrestle with moral dilemma because their morals are Gods morals. They have a scripture for everything and a solution for nothing.
I am big lover of Jesus. He took the Hebrew religion to a higher level. Jesus proposed that we were all God’s children. He never had to force his message; the masses were waiting for it. Jesus never got involved with the politics of Rome or Israel. He spent his time with the poor people and with the hypocrisy of the temples. Christians Evangelicals today wouldn’t be caught dead with some of the people Jesus loved and hung around with.
Jesus spoke about forgiveness all the time. He was against violence in any form even self defense. He admonished Peter for slashing his captors ear and healed him. Jesus also cautioned about money, and its power, admonishing his Apostles to take only what they needed for the day. Jesus spoke hundreds of times more about helping the needed and loving your neighbor than about all the nonsense of hell fire and torture. In fact the bible does not really support hell fire at all. The few references in scripture were related more to the then Jewish custom of throwing the dead bodies of criminals and blasphemers into a trench called “geenna” for burning. They were never alive. The term hell was adopted in it’s place and used in the New Testament to signify torture of the dead.

THE OLD ENGLISH “hell: denoted that which is covered (hidden or unseen). Consequently, it once served as a suitable translation of the Greek hades, which means “imperceptible” or “unseen.” In modern English, however, due to the corrupting influence of human tradition, “hell” has come to mean “the abode of the dead; the place of punishment after death [in which the dead are alive].” Consequently, since in modern English the notion represented by the term “hell” constitutes, to say the least, interpretation, not translation, it is unconscionable for modern translators to render either the Hebrew sheol or the Greek hades by this expression.
Yet it is worse still, whether in old English or modern English, to render the Greek tartarosas and especially the Greek geenna, also as “hell.” Such “translations” are not translations at all; they are but the product of circular reasoning and hoary tradition. Whatever one’s understanding may be concerning the matters to which these words make reference, as a translation of the Original, the rendering “hell,” in all cases, is wholly unjustifiable. Yet it is this very rendering, the single term, “hell,” for all these distinct words in the Original, which has spawned all the familiar talk concerning “hell” which prevails among “Bible-believing Christians” today.

http://www.concordant.org/expohtml/DeathAndJudgment/TheGehennaOfFire.html

The Hebrews never had a hell fire in the whole of the Old Testament and today’s Jews do not believe in “hell fire”.

No logical compassioned human being would torture a person forever for being a thief. Think about what the Christian scares you with “you will burn forever for cheating on you wife” Oops; wrong analogy my wife might agree.
This is the Jesus of the Evangelicals. Bottom line, I am suppose to come to Jesus or be tortured forever; nice God. This is not Jesus; this is fear mongering. It’s nice to throw Jesus’s name around and claim you belong to his club; but very few of us want to pay his dues. Although I have a great deal of respect for Jesus, I have very little respect for Christianity evangelicals. No longer is Jesus worried about the poor, he is now worried about the stock market. Other Christian churches hardly mention hell fire. But it is a main theme, in many evangelical churches, along with the end of the non-Christian world. Jesus no longer brings in the “sheep” through love. Now he forces them through war. Jesus would, of course, support big business and the Republican agenda. So their Jesus would be fighting democrats and arguing for less money when it comes to helping the poor.

Their “ideas” about UFOs- ET are as follows:
UFO and ETs are the “signs in the heaven” which were predicted at the end times in the Bible. They are all the result of demons. You see, it goes like this: Demons are trying to turn everyone away from God so one of the unique ways to do it is to make people think there are Extra-Terrestrials. If humans believe in ETs, we would no longer be the central reason for creation. Jesus sacrificed himself for all and that did not include anything but human beings. There are no ETs, period.

They have no problem quoting from some of the Great researchers in our field when it suites their agenda.

“Astronomer J. Alan Hynek and the late French physicist Jacques Vallee are perhaps the most respected UFO researchers in the world. Both are agnostics. No one can consider them Christians with a theological ax to grind. Both men have made what I consider to be very bold statements that clearly undergird the Christian position that spiritual entities are behind UFO phenomena. For example, Hynek said that UFOs cause physical effects "in the same way that a poltergeist can produce very real physical effects." Vallee said "The UFO phenomenon represents evidence for other dimensions beyond spacetime . . . It is a spiritual system that acts on humans and uses humans." Many prominent born-again Christian scholars such as David Allen Lewis have done research on UFO phenomena. It seems clear to them that demons are using UFOs to deceive millions and prepare them to embrace an occultic, 'New Age' type of faith. Some say that UFOs and the teachings that proceed from them are preparing the world to receive the coming antichrist.”
http://www.rb59.com/prophecy-news/2008/06/researchers-confirm-ets-demons.html

Hynek and Vallee honestly wrestled with the idea that UFO’s may not be technology; but both were researchers, and researchers are usually poor futurists unlike Arthur C. Clark. We know that Clark predicted this superstitious belief scenario if we met a sufficiently advanced technology.

The Christian state their interpretation of the bible is the correct interpretation and it has comes from God through the bible. Who would think, that out of the thousands of interpretations of the bible, the Christian ultra conservative Evangelicals were the only ones that got it right. For me their earth centric insanity doesn’t make sense. I am not going to debate if ETs are demons because no matter what I say these Evangelists have a higher power solution. A demon can do most anything, so no matter what I may argue- the demons ETs have all the bases covered:

Landing traces case studies by a protégée of Hynek Ted Phyllips for 40 years: demons

Radiation Traces: demons

All Fighter Pilot sightings: demons

Nuke Bases sightings: demons

Nuke shut downs: you guessed it demons

When and if they make contact: demons

(By the way all the paranormal stuff: demons)

I will however debate their ridiculous stance that the universe was created just to show God’s glory to man. We have a universe, which, at this time, seems to house trillions of planets; millions of which we will probably never see. Water, methane and formaldehyde have, not only been found on Mars, but the planet seems to release plumes of these gases which suggest life. We have oceans on some moons in our solar systems. Scientist at one time would have thought that impossible. Over 250 planets have been discovered using a very time consuming “wobble method”. This method is unable to detect earth size planet but there is always new technology, thank God:

“DISCOVERY MISSION: KEPLER:
Launched on March 6, 2009, the scientific goal of the Kepler Mission is to explore the structure and diversity of planetary systems, with a special emphasis on the detection of Earth-size planets. It will survey the extended solar neighborhood to detect and characterize hundreds of terrestrial and larger planets in or near the "habitable zone," defined by scientists as the distance from a star where liquid water can exist on a planet's surface. The results will yield a broad understanding of planetary formation, the frequency of formation, the structure of individual planetary systems, and the generic characteristics of stars with terrestrial planets.”

This may settle the “other earth planets” for everyone except the extreme Christian right and some other dogmatic religions. There answer would be:
You see, Satan and his demons could be seducing these scientists into thinking they found other earth-like planets. Evidence makes no difference you see. Demons can create any false evidence they wish.
How does one argue with that?

This continuing theme of “we are right ” has been used by churches and played out throughout history with disastrous results. Our founding forefathers were wise enough to separate God from religion.

The Catholic Church has grown up and sees things differently than these Evangelicals. It seems to see the writing on the wall when it comes to the possibility of ETs. The Church knows that soon, with the advancement of technology the chances of finding life, even intelligent life in space, are good. The Pope has allowed a strong public statement to be made about the possibility of ETs without challenge:

Rev. Funes Vatican Observatory:
"Just as there is a multiplicity of creatures on earth, there can be other beings, even intelligent, created by God. This is not in contrast with our faith because we can't put limits on God's creative freedom. Funes sees no contradiction in believing in the existence of such beings and having faith in his God. He even speculates that a good name for them might be "brother extraterrestrial”.
http://aidanmaconachyblog.blogspot.com/2008/05/vatican-life-on-other-planets.html

So my UFO brothers and sisters: buyer beware. “In the box thinking” is everywhere- even at UFO conferences and UFO web pages. When you meet these “Christians” they will smile and speak softly but beware of those who have all the answers; especially evangelicals with their past track record.
I know what I have written may upset some people. Because I have no book to sell or anyone I am beholding to I can write what ever I want. I believe this subject needed to be written about and if people hate me it’s ok I love my enemies like I love myself.

How do I know all this? Jesus told me.

Joe Capp
UFO Media Matters
Non-Commercial Blog

There Ideas:



There Actions: Jesus Camp

13 comments:

  1. Quote: "It’s nice to throw Jesus’s name around and claim you belong to his club; but very few of us want to pay his dues. Although I have a great deal of respect for Jesus, I have very little respect for Christianity evangelicals."

    Very well put. I feel just the same way. We have a strong christian local church here nearby where I live and 99% of the young people I've met from there talk complete nonsense and live so far from biblical norms. That is perfectly in their right but I can't see how they are righteous christians doing it. They must be totally blind to it and just want to be connected to the positive associations of Jesus Christ as you described. They don't even follow the bible's values and norms - it's some sort of mixup of what they personally like from the bible without compromising in ANYTHING of what's available in modern western society. Oh boy was I ever dumb, I thought christian values meant giving up on the most profane and commercial ideas in order to live according to Jesus teachings but I guess everything always is up for grabs...

    I'm not christian myself but know enough of the Bible and what christian religion consists of from the teachings and Jesus' word.

    I also think that this is one of the last cards the disinfo branch would play upon Ufology if it ever got any progress into some sort of disclosure or became a influencial grassroots-movement. "The powers that be" would funnel money to these christian groups, encouraging them to sponsor and push these issues further. It would gain a lot of publicity and would expand the base of consumers but would shift attention from the real problem and away from the military and courts. It would shift the question away from a science based research discussion and push it into a realm of beliefs (politics and religion). This would stall any Ufological progress for further 10 to 20 years AT LEAST and would kill any prospect for success for that generation Ufologists. Mission accomplished for the shadow puppeteers. This is just one of the reasons we won't see disclosure from our end.

    Nice article. I've read all your work until the last 3-4 months. I will read them also and respond.

    I hope you keep going. All the best,

    Daniel Bergh, Sweden

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  2. wow and you even post that lie filled vehemently anti-christian propaganda movie 'jesus camp'.

    if all this is NOT about religion,
    why are you ranting so excitedly?

    this is evidence that the aliens DO have a religious message-

    and that is that Jesus, buddha, mohammed etc. were all enlightened masters who were themselves influenced by aliens...

    the line has been drawn...

    too bad you have such a violent reaction against Christianity...

    you wont have to put up with it much longer~

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  3. Good post Joe.
    I've discovered the same, I live in a very religious area and I've heard the same nonsense entering my ears when trying to open up conversations about any of the above subjects.
    Hell doesn't exist but in ones mind.
    Most of my information about the afterlife and all it includes comes from a medium that has been trying to get information out for the last 14 years.
    For me it all comes down to perspective every time, if they do not want to see other possibilities they will never see it. Unless they are forced to and I think that isn't correct either.

    Take care and keep up the good work.

    Roel Poelwijk
    The Netherlands

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  4. Good post!

    Evangelicals do well when they simplify and dumb-down their brand of Christianity. And they'll say you "invited" the activity to boot! Nevermind that you might be a God-fearing church-goer who never touched a Ouija board(they love to use Ouija boards as examples of conduits for ufo and/or paranormal activity).

    I do think that there may be something quite valid to what Keel, Vallee, Hynek and Nigel Kerner(Song of the Greys) wrote about regarding 'aliens' possibly being daimonic, fallen angels(meaning fallen into the material existance), archons(Nag Hammadi texts/Christian Ghosticism).

    Though Evangelicals will use bits and pieces of their various works, they want to fit it squarely into a very American neo-conservative religious p.o.v. And they LOVE the Old Testament(with all it's violence,sex and ethnic cleansing under Yaweh's direction).

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  5. I am one of those "Christians" who happens to be very interested in the UFO phenomenon. I happen to notice your article and had to comment.

    You indicated that you have some familiarity with Christian beliefs and Jesus. Everything you stated is true but you missed the most important thing. The whole purpose of Jesus life and death was to die for our sins and make heaven available to everyone who believes in his life and death. Throwing out a Bible verse, but no one comes to the father but through me.

    If you believe in the Christian faith you must also accpet the concept of evil and satan. By doing this, you know that satan's whole purpose is to turn man away from god. In the Bible, satan is described as an angel of light and the great deciever. I believe this concept can give some support to the theory that there is a possibility that the UFO's can be attributed to satan and his ultimate plan of deceiving man.

    I have read several books on this theory which are backed up by Scripture. For me, satan, posing as an alien, fits into end time phrophecy which makes references to signs and wonders (crop circles and such) and a great deception at the end of times.

    Think what would happend if "aliens" finally revealed themselves with the message that humans on earth are the result of some scientific experiment, that they are our creators not God. That Jesus never existed or was just a mad man. I think this would have the potential to turn the major religions, including Christianity up side down. Knowing what I know about human nature, I would venture to say that most people would abandon their concpet of religion and accept this new doctrine. Only those with strong faith would be able to resist this lie and hold on to their beliefs.

    This is exactly what the Bible states will happen in the end of times (many will be decieved).

    If there is any doubt that we are approaching end times, just look around at what is happening in the world. All these events are prophecized in the Bible and what happens when man turns his back on God. A lot of people I talk with are worried, including some Christian friends. I argue that you should be glad because you are seeing prophecy realized and this should serve to reinforce your faith.

    Given my Christian beliefs, I will reserve a final opinion on the alien issue. If/when they finally do reveal themselves, I would be curious to see what they had to say and how this fit into the religions of the world.

    I am also holding out that there is a possibility that there is life on other planets and that God created other beings. For the Bible and my faith to be true, any aliens would have to have the same God, the God revealed in the Bible.

    I normally do not respond to articles but you used the term "Christian" with such mockery and a condescending tone I had to voice my opinion. I am not a loon and do not force my faith on others.

    God does not want his message forced on anyone. He only commands that his message be heard so people can know and decide on his plan for us. It's just a personal choice and another explaination of the universe that is not crazy or absurd.

    Because I believe in the Bible, the only box I prefer to fit my universe in is the box of Bible. "Christians" have just as much right to do this as anyone else.

    Once again, time will tell I just hope your faith is in the right place.

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  6. I don't know if my original response went through so I will try again. I am interested in the UFO phenomena and your article caught my eye. You stated that you love Jesus. Just wondering who is this Jesus that you say you love?

    He said he was the son of God. Is that what you believe?

    Chuck Brzezicki

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  7. Dear Daniel,
    I apologize for being late in my response. Somehow the emails got mixed and I thought people were just not writing and enjoying the summer. Man was I wrong now I have all these comments to catches up on. I follow the principles of Jesus and Ghundi. Humility and forgiving oneself and others. I don't know what has happened to some groups that call themselves Christian. When I think of these churches, the words love and caring for others does not come to mind. Rather reactionary and barriers of hate do. If they have such faith in Jesus why are they so anixous to pass laws to change this world. Was Jesus suppose to do that when he returned.Maybe these Evangelicals are tired of waiting on Jesus and figured they bring on Armageddon themselves.

    The Bush administration did funnel favors to these Christian right wing churches. They hired many incompetent people because their church affiliations.
    I guess Wall Street is the "New Jerusalem.
    Joe
    UFO MM

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  8. Dear Anonymous,
    sorry for late response email problem. You seem unable to separate Christian Evangelicals from real Christians. For me most Christian Evangelical do not in any way shape of form follow the most fundamental principles Jesus laid down. They are a materialistic, reactionary force with no humility and in bed to much with the Republican party. Supporting Big Business rather than the poor who they despise and call lazy. Jesus said you would always have the poor you people think it doesn't count in America. And why does all this money have to be funneled through your churches. Abuses are abutment throughout your history of fund-raising. So Christians yes want to be Christians; no way.

    Joe Capp
    UFO MM

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  9. Dear Roel,
    I studied the bible every day after twelve years old. I was involved in a Christian church that didn't believe in hell. I liked that part of it. But it seemed to me that they spent more time debating the bible and what it "really" means then ever helping anyone. Sad.
    Thanks
    Joe
    UFOMM

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  10. Dear Brownie,
    At least you can debate those theories. Not 100% right people. Like I said: "would any of their conferences allow a Stanton UFO table?".

    Joe
    UFOMM

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  11. Dear Charles,

    I don't want to get into interpretation of scripture. I just know that the most investigated UFO crash of our time Roswell discounts you version of what this is. The ET bodies died and they stank. Of course this was reported by Military Officers and people that were there. Come to think of it most of them who were at the Roswell crash were probably Christian.
    Since Religions began it has told us we are the center. Still they hold on. Despite the overwhelming evidence that we are not.
    Yes people that live all or nothing will be in future shock. The fanatics may fight back but I believe many good Christians are beyond dogma.
    Thanks
    Joe
    UFOMM

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  12. Dear Charles,

    I don't know what Jesus was. I know what he said and if anything shows he is a son of God it is his teaching. Which, by now, is mostly forgotten. That is why I know ETs are not demons. In most christian evangelicals churches the demons and what they stand for have won.

    Joe Capp
    UFOMM

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  13. here is a book that will answer all of your (everyone's) questions...not just about UFOs, the Bible, but the workings, the how's and why's of our lives and the world. You might find this a little more than interesting....


    This is a story of an astonishing true account of a “close encounter of the FIFTH kind” which a man named Richard R. Giroux, experienced on October 12, 1994 on the rim canal of Lake Okeechobee, Florida. The contact was deliberate and the communication profound.

    The visitors shared in detail their true nature, their mission, and the reason for their connection with Earth since before the dawn of antiquity. The details of what they shared were not provided through conversation, but via a direct implant of knowledge. They also shared numerous and detailed future sequential events that will verify their message.


    As a result of the encounter, he wrote four books with the information they gave him and asked him to write in astounding detail. Those books are self-published on Amazon.com, but are still essentially unknown works. Simply do an author search under R. R. Giroux. The titles are:

    I AM DARIUS - Awakening
    I AM DARIUS - Special Knowledge
    I AM DARIUS - Divine Family
    I AM DARIUS - Expectations

    Recently all four books have been collated into a single 8.5 X 11 volume of 562 pages titled, “The Last Prophet”. The Last Prophet is a compendium detailing the “big picture” workings and purpose of our existence and the interconnections and multiple levels of reality itself. The contents of these books provide the rationale for our lives and the answers to questions that mankind has been asking since the beginning.




    This work is the ultimate UFO-Bible connection story from a modern day Enoch. It provides the background and rationale for all other historical and biblical "encounters" as well as those continuing today. The books reveal the reasons. The elegance of the truth is stunning!

    Giroux is retired living in Okeechobee, Florida.. IHe received a BS and MS in Mathematics from the University of Massachusetts, Amherst and was a successful mathematician and statistician for over 40 years.

    Nothing is really as it appears to be and there is much happening behind the scenes. The message is certainly a positive one. However, there are dark times ahead. Some of these times are the events that the visitors told me that would happen soon. A small portion of those provided are in Special Knowledge - Chapter 7 - Conference, which they said would verify ALL the information given. There are many given with some are listed below. They are sequential. The interesting part is that the events to come were given in 1994. Many of these players were not in the news at that time…as they are now. The first of the events to come will be:

    1. Pakistan will attack India, destroying the City of Bombay by a nuclear bomb.
    2. India will not answer this attack
    3. USA will enforce an ultimatum to Pakistan, who will acquiesce.
    4. A nuclear bomb will be used against North Korea.
    5. Tactical nuclear weapons will also be used at the front in the North Korean conflict.
    6. There will be a civil war in Russia.
    7. Russia will destroy Kiev with a nuclear bomb.
    8. A nuclear bomb will be delivered on Moscow by the Ukrainians.
    9. The city will be totally destroyed… nothing remains.

    The visit outlined above is Chapter 1 of Awakening, details the encounter itself, including the exchange of dialog. For the scope of the total message, the books will have to be read.

    ReplyDelete